Another Great Debate! Tab Search vs. Tag Search

December 4th, 2007 by Charles S. Knight
Posted in Debates | 4 Comments »


Tonight’s debate is an especially interesting one.  Rather than pair up two Alts in the same Vertical, it was suggested (I forget by whom) to compare and contrast two different approaches to general search – Tabbed metasearch represented by Boris from Zuula – a Top 100 Alt since Day 1 (and always the last!) and “Tagged” or the Tag Cloud feature from Search Engine of the Year winner Quintura represented by Yakov.


1. Do you build your own index or do you use another index? 
How important is that distinction?

 One of Zuula’s key advantages is that it does not force its users to trust either a new web index or a proprietary way of combining the results from numerous different search engines.  Instead, Zuula allows its users to continue relying on their favorite search engines, while also gaining quick access to results from other search engines, when they’re needed.  So, no Zuula does not have its own index.  Instead, it displays both the organic search results and, when available, the advertising of other search engines.  Results are displayed in a consistent manner across the different ngines, and there is always a clear distinction between “organic” results and advertising.

We at Quintura do build our own web index. As compared to a traditional web index, the Quintura web index is based on contextual relationships between words and phrases. We believe that any search engine has to have its own web index in order to create a substantial shareholder value and make it sustainable.

2.  Zuula uses “Tabbed” metasearch, and Quintura has a “Tagged” cloud – do you feel that these each have their merits, and if so, what are they?

 Both approaches definitely have their merits.  Indeed, they are complementary in many ways.  Let me explain.  For many people, Zuula (or a more traditional search engine) is what they’ll want to use for most of their searching.  For the majority of searches, the goal is to get the one or two links that you’re looking for, and to get them fast.  Zuula is great for those kinds of searches.

Quintura is complementary to Zuula and other services, then, in the sense that it is useful in those cases where the user isn’t quite sure how to find the information they’re looking for — where the user doesn’t quite know what keywords or search terms to use.  For those situations, Quintura may help the user identify concepts related to their initial search terms.  Using the concepts uncovered by Quintura, the user may eventually get to the information they’re searching for — using Quintura, or perhaps going back to Zuula and using it.

To be completely honest, though, I’d have to admit that Zuula and Quintura are competitive in addition to being complementary.  They are competitive in the sense that they both are useful for difficult searches.  Zuula makes difficult searches easier by facilitating access to results from many different search engines.  Quintura makes difficult searches easier by helping its users find related concepts with which to improve and narrow their searches.   Yet I wouldn’t overemphasize this competitive aspect of the two services.  It exists, but it shouldn’t overshadow the extent to which they can be used as complements to one another.

Today’s search engines require people to know how to query and then to mechanically sort through information to find what they want (or not). Quintura turns searching into finding. Quintura offers users a unique and simplified experience. With a single word, Quintura helps users refine their search, exposing all kinds of information in a single view. With a Quintura tag cloud users control their search process. Even if they don’t know what they are looking for – Quintura helps people explore new possibilities and find information.

3. For Boris – how is Zuula different from other similar metasearch engines? And for Yakov, how does Quintura differ from other tag clouds?

 Zuula is a very different metasearch engine.  True, like all metasearch engines, Zuula makes it possible to view results derived from multiple source search engines.  Most metasearch engines, however, combine search results from multiple search engines, often intermingling organic results and advertising. 

Zuula, in contrast, keeps the results from different engines separate from one another.  It also clearly separates organic results and advertising.  Zuula adopts this approach because its goal is to make it possible for its users to rely on their preferred search engines for most of their searching, while also having quick access to results from other search engines when they’re needed.

With a Quintura tag cloud, users can get to the information they need more dynamically and intuitively. They can get to deeper links quickly, not only getting to the information they seek – but to the hidden information they didn’t even know could be found. Quintura allows users to control the search process rather than the search process or technology controlling the user.

4. Will an “Alternative” search engine ever reach 5% of search market share?  If so, will it be you?

 I’m certain that an “Alternative” search engine will one day leap the 5% market share hurdle.  I’m not optimistic, however, that this will take place very soon.  I think the major search engines have developed formidable leadership in many different areas critical for search success.  This leadership makes it difficult for an “alt” to gain noticeable market share in the near future.

Will Zuula achieve a 5% share of the search market?  All of us on the Zuula team certainly hope so, and we’re working hard to make it happen.  But we’re also modest enough to recognize that it’s likely to be a long time until we even come remotely near that target.

It should reach a much larger market share. Our investors Mangrove Capital Partners once said “The next Google will come out of Eastern Europe” and we share that vision with them.

5. What is your relationship, if any, with other search engines?
How do feel about partnerships?

 We’ve been very fortunate at Zuula in regard to our relationships with other search engines.  I believe this is due to some very conscious decisions we made when we launched Zuula. The first decision was to make Zuula freely accessible to any user, and to always keep our users in mind as we develop Zuula further.

The second decision was to never, ever, try to make even a cent of revenue from Zuula as we continue to evolve the site’s initial features and functionality.

The third decision was to show deep respect for our source search engines by fully maintaining the integrity of their search results and their advertising.  Not surprisingly, after some initial apprehension in the community about our goals and policies, I think it became clear that we can be a valuable partner and an ideal showcase for the impressive variety the search industry has to offer. So we have been very open to partnerships, and this will undoubtedly continue to be the case going forward.

We currently make use of web indexes of other search engines such as Yahoo! and Yandex as well as using our own index on Quintura Kidsand Quintura for site search. For example, we use an index of Blinkx video search engine to find videos since Blinkx currently has one of the largest web indexes of videos. In fact, Quintura could be implemented as a visualization layer on top of any search index. That is why we are open to any mutually beneficial partnership. However, our goal is to build a standalone business and beat Google by providing a superior search experience, offering a new site search model for web publishers, and delivering much better search results to users.

Thank you, Boris and Yakov.  Readers, if you have a question for Zuula or Quintura, please leave a comment and we’ll ask them to check back as time allows.

Online Maps: Plotting the Direction of Local Search

December 4th, 2007 by Charles S. Knight
Posted in Uncategorized | No Comments »

SES Chicago  Day 2  Local Search  #4 of 4

This session will not be blogged – sorry, but’s it’s entirely visual.  Maps and such. More later. Charles

Driving Local Sales with Internet Yellow Pages

December 4th, 2007 by Charles S. Knight
Posted in Uncategorized | 1 Comment »

SES Chicago  Day Two  Local Search  Session #3 of 4

Tobias Dengel: Website Pros

Every local merchant should have a website!  But then what?  Chances are that they don’t know hardly anything about SEM (Search Engine Marketing) or SEO (Search Engine Optimization).  This business bundles all of these services for one price for real life roofers and dentists, etc.  This includes follow up analytics and lead generation, etc.

Bruce Crair: Local.com (that name sounds familiar!)  Small business know that they need an Internet presence, but who has the time and skills for that??  Reminder: have a good, up-to-date website.  Nothing fancy, but useful.  Keep It Simple, Silly! Then submit your nice webpage to the search engines.  (shows Local.com’s submission page).  Be accurate, accurate, accurate!

Do organic (regular search results) and PPC (the paid ads on the right) ads both – not one or the other.  Use your local address and phone number!  Finally, track the results with an analytics program.

Justin Sanger: LocalLaunch

Was the old paper Yellow Pages phone book the first loca search engine?  Web 0.0?

Local Search has so many players, so many products, so many weekly (or daily!) updates and innovations, it’s difficult for the pros to keep up!  Who’s the winner in this space?  Yep, the Yellow Pages.  Ah, brand equity.  His company “only” has 2,000 sales reps. 

Everybody has to buy Google and Yahoo! ads, because that’s where the users are.  But then that increases competition for keywords, and so prices rise.  And when prices rise, Google and Yahoo! get more money.  And when Google and Yahoo! get more money, uh, they keep it.

Scott Finholm: Marchex

1) Owns 200,000 domains, with over 1 Billion webpages of unique content.  On the ‘net, it’s #1 email and #2 local search #3 IM.  “You cannot automate creativity.”  So they hire Philosophy and English majors – hallelujah!

Your website is the sales person on your staff that is often ignored.  “There’s plenty of (SEM/SEO) business to go around.

Don’t worry, the printed Yellow Pages book is not going to disappear anytime soon.

Charles Stubbs, CEO, YellowPages.com

December 4th, 2007 by Charles S. Knight
Posted in CEO Views, News | 1 Comment »

SES Chicago  Day Two  Local Session  #2 of 4.

YellowPages.com ($$$ URL!) “Yellow Pages” and the Walking fingers logo were never trademarked in the U.S. – yikes!  They want everyone to use them for “Plumber, Charlottesville VA”  of course.  Of course many people will go straight to Google, et al.

Local search investment is going up, up, up!  These guys have 4,500 sales reps talking to millions of local plumbers and dentists every year!  Barrier to entry for Alts:  Google, et al, have $$$ to invest in local to add to their product mix, but a start up may not have the money to get decent traction.

YellowPages.com feeds into Yahoo! Yellow Pages and AOL, etc. 

Selling clicks is *not* that key for YellowPages because many local business do not have a website yeet to click to!  Excellent point – very true.  So maybe a print ad would be better.

Interestingly, they approach the local dentist and they say, “How many quality leads do you want per month – what’s your goal and how many can you handle?’ and then YellowPages delivers that much traffic for $$ cost.  The dentist does not really care where the leads came from – PPClick, print, other, etc.

Mobile search is very young, SMS, WAP, Jaba downloads, iPhone app, but there are a mind numbing number of brands, phone models, carries, platforms, an on and on.  Mobile call conversions are very high and extremely localized.  PPCall. 

Now they have “ratings and reviews” with a rebuttal feature!  Now this I love!! It connects the merchant with the person that wrote the negative comment (the consumer can be anonymous, of course).  That disgruntled customer could then write a glowing review, “Hey, Joe’s plumbing really listens to their customers!”

[At AltSearchEngines, we connect commenters to the search engine when it seems appropriate and mutually beneficial, just happened this morning.]

Coming soon: video yellow page ads!  (Brings in Video Search)

End of session.  Lunch!

Transformaton of Local in a Search-Driven World

December 4th, 2007 by Charles S. Knight
Posted in News | 3 Comments »

SES Chicago  Day 2  Local Search all day – 4 sessions, this is #1.

Michael Boland, moderator (The Kelsey Group)

For items over $500, people do the research on-line, but then purchase off-line.  Would you buy a huge TV on-line, or go to your local Best Buy / Circuit City?

Richard Rosen (fastcall411) – they connect consumers to local providers – literally – via cell phone (you call, they find, then connect).  Sometimes you call a local search and they are not “available” at that moment for some reason or another (small staff).

Using the traditional paper Yellow Pages may give you stale information (business moved / closed / other).  Here cometh the Demo! (They must have a website – fastcall411.)  A call is placed for a plumber – it goes simultaneously to 10 plumbers, and this is key – the first merchant to respond to your need gets the business!  Excellent.

Manish Patel, Where2Getit.  (W2Gi)  When consumers are ready to buy, who will guide them?  (see also Slifter.com)  1) Google  2) Retailer’s website (Best Buy)  3) comparison search engines (Retrevo),  4) social networks (see also Omgili’s new product reviews).  Organic search, Paid search (PPC), on-line directories, PriceGrabber.com, “smart” GPS devices, all places to find products. 

Scott Dunlap, NearbyNow.  They power shopping malls – you search just a real nearby shopping mall for what they have right there in that mall.  They will check availability, reserve the product (you buy it), and email you the receipt.  You just go pick it up.  They index every real item on every real shelf in that real (local) mall.

Fun act: People will accept no more than two ads per hour to their cell phone.

Traditional ads – how do you know if a billboard or newspaper ad lured the customer into your store?  On-line sales and in-store sales are apples and oranges.  people like local pick-up, “holds (85% will come get it and holds do not require a crdit card), and email receipts.  And if something is new and cool, people want to come and see it, touch it, and check it out.

Bob Armour, ShopLocal.  People use 34% of their shopping time on-line, but companies only spend 7% of their ad budgets on-line!  Can you say, ‘disconnect?’  ShopLocal does on-line version of your Sunday supplements (all those ads that fall out that you hate.)  Companies are starting to wake up to RSS, widgets, social networks, email, text messaging, and so on.

So use ShopLocal.com for all of your Christmas shopping! ;-)

End of session.